Thumbs up for Camshaft!!!

[Goopi]

Will your website soon be up as well?

[immorality]

I'm back working again...

Great news, I'm glad to hear it

[camshaft]

Wasn't really that concerned about rehosting it, unless someone can give me a good reason

Will your website soon be up as well?

[Cameron]

Glad to hear your back up and running!

[PearlWhiteMR2]

:D:D

Great news!! I am going to have to come over and pick your brain, I am an apprentice at Toyota now, but I want all the MR2 know-how I can get!

[cam_132]

Welcome back Cam!

[camshaft]

Good luck

Stealership is the worst place to apprentice as you learn nothing but how to part swap. Then add flat rate just makes a loose loose situation for the customers and technicians.
You only learn real diagnostic skills in the real world

:D:D:D

Great news!! I am going to have to come over and pick your brain, I am an apprentice at Toyota now, but I want all the MR2 know-how I can get!

[PearlWhiteMR2]

Well, thanks, Cam. Just what I needed to hear. But, sorry, I've heard this all before and it's just not true. Maybe at SOME dealerships, but not here.

I have already seen firsthand myself. There are three licensed techs at my shop that have been working there between 5 to 20 years. In the last week alone, I have seen them use various diagnostic tools such as multimeters, mechanic's stethoscopes, labscopes, and various methods to determine problems with vehicles that have come in. They know their stuff, and regardless of whether or not they are on flat rate, or they ARE just swapping out a part, they take the time to find out what caused the issue to begin with, they take care to do the job properly (ie. grinding the shims on brake pads to ensure proper contact), and they verify the repair.

I just finished school, and unless some other shop has a fancy way of doing things that I am unaware of, this is exactly what we were taught to do. Verify the problem, diagnose the cause, repair it, and verify it worked. How is this different? I understand you may have worked at a dealership where you felt this was the case, but I feel it is the far opposite. In fact, I would be extremely comfortable letting these guys work on my own MR2, especially since two of them have worked for Toyota since MR2s were new and do happen to know a lot about them.

And regarding flat rate, I agree it is a horrible system, but these guys are so skilled and know how to organize the job to get the most out of the time they have without rushing it or doing it badly. I have seen it, and I would personally not feel comfortable working somewhere like that if that was what was going on.

Cheers, just had to get that out there because I know that it is not 100% true for every shop.

[camshaft]

You are more then welcome to your own opinion PearlWhiteMR2

I have lost count of the number of MR2's owners that came almost crying from a toyota dealership. Where they where charged over a 100 +dollars for diagnosis and the car left just as broken as it went it. With the invoice saying the car possibly required about ten to twelve different items for it to be repaired. And the owner left thinking that he was going to have to sell the car because he could not afford to replace all the items toyota said it could be.

Then when I looked at it a 10 minute test drive and 15 minutes of repairs to pinpoint the defective item which wasn't even listed in the 10-12 items on the invoice. And on a side note I actually stocked and the owner drove away with a repaired car..

Well, thanks, Cam. Just what I needed to hear. But, sorry, I've heard this all before and it's just not true. Maybe at SOME dealerships, but not here.

I have already seen firsthand myself. There are three licensed techs at my shop that have been working there between 5 to 20 years. In the last week alone, I have seen them use various diagnostic tools such as multimeters, mechanic's stethoscopes, labscopes, and various methods to determine problems with vehicles that have come in. They know their stuff, and regardless of whether or not they are on flat rate, or they ARE just swapping out a part, they take the time to find out what caused the issue to begin with, they take care to do the job properly (ie. grinding the shims on brake pads to ensure proper contact), and they verify the repair.

I just finished school, and unless some other shop has a fancy way of doing things that I am unaware of, this is exactly what we were taught to do. Verify the problem, diagnose the cause, repair it, and verify it worked. How is this different? I understand you may have worked at a dealership where you felt this was the case, but I feel it is the far opposite. In fact, I would be extremely comfortable letting these guys work on my own MR2, especially since two of them have worked for Toyota since MR2s were new and do happen to know a lot about them.

And regarding flat rate, I agree it is a horrible system, but these guys are so skilled and know how to organize the job to get the most out of the time they have without rushing it or doing it badly. I have seen it, and I would personally not feel comfortable working somewhere like that if that was what was going on.

Cheers, just had to get that out there because I know that it is not 100% true for every shop.

[PearlWhiteMR2]

Yes, because all shops are the same, and the same people work at them. Like I said, not true for every shop. I'm not saying that your story is not true, but I just felt a little put off by what you said, I'm sure you understand. I am really excited about this opportunity and it is my dream job, and I have already learned tons in just a short week. Chances are, that guy got sent in to a tech that didn't know what he was doing. Just because one tech messes up doesn't mean all Toyota shops are bad.

[Bravo 5]

When I first test drove my 93 turbo I took it to the nearest Toyota dealership for an inspection and was told that one of the cylinders had very low compression... like 170-170-170-100 or something to that effect. Me not knowing exactly what sort of work it would entail to fix this I used this information to help negotiate the price of the car. I got it for a great price at the time (7 years ago) and took it to Cam to check out and do whatever repairs were needed. I mentioned the low compression and got the bad news... that it could need an engine rebuild, which meant big $$$. Then he did his own compression check and found the compression to be the same straight across!! The tech at the dealership screwed up the compression check . Yikes! If I had left my car at the dealership to do an engine rebuild that wasn't even needed it would have cost me a few thousand dollars more than having Cam doing it. Oh well, the dealership's mistake helped me get a smoking deal on a 93 turbo!

Another time I took my car into a Toyota dealership to have the alternator checked because the battery wasn't holding a charge. I got in afterwards, started the car, took my foot off the brake and the car drove off... with the clutch completely to the floor! They said I brought it in like that... wtf!? Then I took it to another Toyota dealership only to have to pay them $1200 for a new clutch.

I actually agree with both of you... but for me I've had nothing but bad experiences with dealerships. But they all can't be bad.

[2-yota]

You all have correct points that I have to agree with. I've worked at a Toyota dealer in the past before and I've been scammed on items for my own personal vehicles too (still have a bitter taste in my mouth). Put that aside, there are a few very experienced guys in the shop that I would also trust working on my MR2 if I had to. That being said, if you just walk up and roll-the-dice for a 1/6 chance of getting that master tech, then those aren't very good odds. You need a hook-up at the counter that will hand deliver your work order to that master tech. If you don't have hook-ups, your best bet for an MR2, just go to Cam. That's a 1/1 chance of getting the right guy.

[PearlWhiteMR2]

You all have correct points that I have to agree with. I've worked at a Toyota dealer in the past before and I've been scammed on items for my own personal vehicles too (still have a bitter taste in my mouth). Put that aside, there are a few very experienced guys in the shop that I would also trust working on my MR2 if I had to. That being said, if you just walk up and roll-the-dice for a 1/6 chance of getting that master tech, then those aren't very good odds. You need a hook-up at the counter that will hand deliver your work order to that master tech. If you don't have hook-ups, your best bet for an MR2, just go to Cam. That's a 1/1 chance of getting the right guy.

I hear you there, I just was a little put off by being told I would basically learn nothing at where I am, as I'm sure anyone would be. I have said before, to others, to go to Cam over a dealership just based on the fact that it costs 3x as much.

[camshaft]

Forgot about that one D

But they did miss the leaking head gasket opps

Actually had another Mr2 owner where the Stealership told him his engine had too much compression. And he wanted me to take the head off and clean out the carbon to reduce the compression.
I was like WTF ?????? who complains of too much compression.....

Problem was the service manual has a compression spec but no actual steps on how to complete the compression test.
example how many times to turn engine over, have throttle body open, battery voltage etc etc...
So they turned the engine over 8 times and had a huge number compaired to what the manual said..

Bottom line was the car and engine where fine...

When I first test drove my 93 turbo I took it to the nearest Toyota dealership for an inspection and was told that one of the cylinders had very low compression... like 170-170-170-100 or something to that effect. Me not knowing exactly what sort of work it would entail to fix this I used this information to help negotiate the price of the car. I got it for a great price at the time (7 years ago) and took it to Cam to check out and do whatever repairs were needed. I mentioned the low compression and got the bad news... that it could need an engine rebuild, which meant big $$$. Then he did his own compression check and found the compression to be the same straight across!! The tech at the dealership screwed up the compression check . Yikes! If I had left my car at the dealership to do an engine rebuild that wasn't even needed it would have cost me a few thousand dollars more than having Cam doing it. Oh well, the dealership's mistake helped me get a smoking deal on a 93 turbo!

Another time I took my car into a Toyota dealership to have the alternator checked because the battery wasn't holding a charge. I got in afterwards, started the car, took my foot off the brake and the car drove off... with the clutch completely to the floor! They said I brought it in like that... wtf!? Then I took it to another Toyota dealership only to have to pay them $1200 for a new clutch.

I actually agree with both of you... but for me I've had nothing but bad experiences with dealerships. But they all can't be bad.

[camshaft]

Well again your entitled to your own opinion and my opinion is very blunt and to the point. If you took offense to that then maybe 3-4 years from now when you fully understand how the automotive industry works you will get it. Working at a dealer is like putting blinders on to the real automotive world and diagnosing faults.

I have had people come from 3-4-5 different Toyota dealers with problems all related to flate rate system. Working faster to make more money, they missed items or incorrectly diagnosed things. Its just a fact of life your going to miss things when rushed

The problem lies in not the technicians working at the dealerships but on how they get paid. The flate rate system only promotes people to work faster and cut corners to get that completed.
So do the math........ faster, cut corners to make more money "the big G word" Greed

I could go on for pages and pages of examples to back up my point but I have better things to do.

Yes, because all shops are the same, and the same people work at them. Like I said, not true for every shop. I'm not saying that your story is not true, but I just felt a little put off by what you said, I'm sure you understand. I am really excited about this opportunity and it is my dream job, and I have already learned tons in just a short week. Chances are, that guy got sent in to a tech that didn't know what he was doing. Just because one tech messes up doesn't mean all Toyota shops are bad.

I hear you there, I just was a little put off by being told I would basically learn nothing at where I am, as I'm sure anyone would be. I have said before, to others, to go to Cam over a dealership just based on the fact that it costs 3x as much.